Why do women take out longer parental leave than men? Will a kid necessarily be a burden in the job context? Is there any potential for career hikes for employees 55 and beyond? These are issues Aigul Zhalgassova, member of the editorial team of GROW2GLOW, discussed with Birgit Steinborn, chairwoman of the General Works Council and deputy chairwoman of the Supervisory Board, Siemens AG. Their focus is on Germany, but the general issue reaches beyond borders.

Birgit Steinborn, chairwoman of the General Works Council and deputy chairwoman of the Supervisory Board, Siemens AG (c) Gesamtbetriebsrat

Zhalgassova: Ms. Steinborn, in my environment I see highly qualified women who sport impressive academic degrees, international experience, and leading positions. However, – as soon as they have kids, they will take on a larger share of childcare, and they will take out longer parental leave than their spouses. Are you also making these observations?

Steinborn: Not at all. What I am seeing is – the higher a woman’s qualification, the briefer her absence from the job.

On average, however, women are absent from their jobs for longer in comparison with men. The main reason is typically income-related: more women still work in areas where incomes are lower. At Siemens, for example, the percentage of women is above 60 percent in internal services, human resources, communication, and accounting/financials. Sectors in which incomes are higher – in engineering, project management, maintenance, and sales – women make up a smaller portion of the workforce. In some sectors, their share falls below ten percent. And whoever makes the smaller contribution to the household income will stay at home with the kids. For families, this calculation is self-explanatory.

Zhalgassova: What are further reasons?

Steinborn: Often, a second issue is the age difference between the man and the woman. Whenever couples have children, the male partner will typically have progressed further in his career than his female counterpart. His reasoning will be, “it would be stupid for me to make a change towards part-time now. This would mean a dip in my career.” Based on this argument, women are often willing to accept to park their careers. The challenge is – subsequently, they may not get the option to continue building their careers.

Emerging role models for women and men in their private and job worlds

Zhalgassova: This means – to enable women to lead a successful life both in their jobs and with their families, we need to engage the men. Male empowerment is required for a parental leave which exceeds two months. How do we encourage male colleagues at Siemens to commit to their right to raise a child?

Steinborn: The image of fathers on parental leave has indeed changed. I know many young men who, with a high level of self-confidence, take out two months of parental leave. However, it is still the income which influences the duration of leave men take.

Zhalgassova: What has to change?

Steinborn: We need to encourage girls to plan their lives and income with self-confidence. That saying has to hold for them too: “choose a job which allows you to feed your family”. The issue of financial independence is still talked about less with girls. The times when, in Germany, women were not allowed to sign on a purchase, or take on a job, without their husband’s approval still reside firmly in many people’s minds. It may take another generation for this attitude to change fundamentally.

Zhalgassova: So there is no way out from these anachronistic role models?

Steinborn: We indeed need, and have, role models which vividly present alternatives. And yes, we can find them in our company. In a podcast series by Natalia Oropeza called “Diversity matters”, Dr. Norbert Gaus from Corporate Technology was a speaker. His recruiting activities are, in particular, in the academic fields of computer science and math. According to his research, these areas sport a higher percentage of female graduates in comparison with the gender rates in his organization. Together with his team, he has therefore developed a roadmap aimed at increasing the share of females in his organization.

Zhalgassova: In your LinkedIn article „Arbeiten in der Corona-Krise: Frauen zwischen mehr ‘Home’ und wenig ‘Office’ “(Work in the Corona crisis: women between more “home” and less “office”) you reveal how Corona has served to restore obsolete gender roles. Women reduce their number of working hours to care for their families. Do we as a company have leverage to influence the personal decision regarding the division of tasks in families?

Steinborn: The solution involves action at several levels.

First, it is about income and tasks. Leadership positions in a part-time setting should be available to all. And by the way – many men would opt to work fewer hours to spend more time with their families.

Second, we need to support women at all levels. The option I see here is to introduce a quota for females – at all levels, not just the Board.

Third, flexible working hours. There are union tariff agreements in Germany such as “T-Zug”. This means more time for family and relatives. We need more examples of flexible working hours which should not be at the expense of employees. We demand a healthy work-life balance.

Parents on the job – a negative image?

Zhalgassova: I was told many times that women and men with children have an image of being unreliable. They tend to be absent, or cannot be reached later in afternoons. How can we at Siemens create a family-friendly atmosphere?

Steinborn: My experience has been different. Colleagues – female as well as male – who have kids and work part-time have learned to organize themselves well. They are highly efficient in how they make use of their time.

However, we have to continue, in our company, to work on reconciling job and family. Scheduling appointments is one key aspect – limitations to working hours have to be complied with. There is a right to not being reachable; this is part of our agreements on the New Normal Working Model in Germany.

As for childcare, opportunities provided by public facilities are not sufficient. Neither are the options offered by Siemens. We need more facilities and options for kids of all age groups. We definitely have to expand that offering.

Dips in the careers of employees aged 55 and beyond

Zhalgassova: In the works council, you are active devising the future of Siemens – #NextSiemens is the keyword here. This includes strengthening the cohesion within the company. To me, cooperation between generations should be part of this. What are your plans as to better integrate Siemens employees aged 55 and beyond into what’s shaping the company?

Steinborn: Someone in her or his early 50s still has 15 to 17 years to work. This is close to half a professional life. It would be utterly wrong to claim that these colleagues are bound to quit soon anyway, and are therefore no longer eligible for further qualification. Quite to the contrary – it is in particular in these times of structural transformation and digital change that we need offerings for continuing qualification and education for all employees. After all, it is them who make possible the success of our company.

Zhalgassova: So offerings for qualification and continuing education are a key to success?

Steinborn: First, we need to enable colleagues to achieve further qualifications. Thanks to an initiative of the corporate works council and the trade union IG Metall we arrived at agreeing, with the Siemens Board, on a “future fund” for Siemens Germany. This provides additional funding for the qualification of employees whose workplaces are subject to change.

Second, I advocate enabling further career steps for more senior colleagues. An employee aged 60 has seven more years on the job in front of her or him; this is a sufficient time to work in a new task setting based on previous experience. We live in a fast-paced era, which makes seven years a really long time.

I myself am part of a generation in which colleagues used to retire early. Today, this concept is hard to imagine. But it still lingers in many minds. “This person there is 58, so her/his time to enter retirement is just around the corner” – that’s just not correct.

My experience has been that the perfect setting is for younger and more senior people to work together. This way, ideas of the young meet the experience of the old. This provides a perfect basis for cooperation.

Zhalgassova: You have been active in the works council for a long time. Was there ever a moment when you wished you had a magic wand to wave and solve complex problems? What is the issue in the job world you would have liked to tackle that magic way?

Steinborn: It is my aspiration to no longer have to talk about the reconciliation of family and the working life, to discuss “Do, or can, women want to engage in careers” – because it has turned into reality! It has to become a lot more normal, and should no longer be called into question, for women on the Board, in management positions, or works council chair roles to fulfil their tasks. We can all contribute to achieving such a mindset.

Zhalgassova: Thank you very much for this interview, Ms. Steinborn.